The Chinese Toyota Prado

[Rocky]

called Gonow! Starting at AED 52,000!

[Overdrive]

Is that what you have to say when it doesn't move ?? GO NOW!! GO NOW!! hahahahaha, has toyota given up is reputation for profits!

[Saffir]

Why would the fact that it is made in China compromise anything - toyotas are even made in America!!!!

[T.N.T]

It is not exactly made by Toyota, Saffir. Its just some company which might have bought the production rights from Toyota and started building it with their own name. Its interior sucks, and its got a Camry-sourced 2.4l engine. Don't you see those Hiace look-alikes (not current shape) on the road with some Chinese name. And the usual Great Wall pick up which is actually a Hilux with puny build-quality and interior.

A few examples:



Jinbei 'Prado'



Jinbei 'Hiace'

[Overdrive]

Well, yes, and so is egg friend rice! The only problem with this is that these cars will be exported from China to other countries, and as we've seen in (India, Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan, etc.) in the Subcontinent/East Asia, several components are made by the local industry in a bid to reduce the cost of manufacturing the car (and taxes).

Unlike the US, these countries do not have consumer protection laws that work and this leads to shoddy workmanship, poor quality components, and an overall cheaper, inferior product.

[Saffir]

The main reason that Chineese goods are cheaper is that their labour is so much cheaper - the fact the the frills are removed from a car does not mean that it is not as reliable mechanically. The Chinese also have less protectionist trade policies and carry over the cost savings to the consumer. (unlike the US companies that manufacture goods in China and still sell them at the same price as US manufactured goods)

The main vehicles that i see broken down in Abu Dhabi (other than the BMWs driven into the concrete barriers) are the Toyota Land Bruisers, I have yet to see a "Great Wall" (what a terible name that is!) or whatever on the side of the road!!! Everyone is using chineese manufactured goods every day such as your Mobile phones etc. DO NOT discount things meerely because they are made in China. American cars suck mechanically and finish wise but people still buy them - mystifies me big time.

Phew

[Overdrive]

Hi, i totally agree on your statement on American cars, except for a very few exceptions, they generally tend to be of poor quality, ineffecient, and aweful to look at!

We can argue to the end of the world about why chinese good are good or why they're not. We can also argue about why german engineering is (still) so highly regarded world wide. The sad fact remains that some cultures are not inclined towards high quality.

I belong to Pakistan, and time and again we hear the government shout about an abudance of 'highly skilled manpower' ... we have 160 million people, and 99% of the population would be happy just to get the damn job done ... forget quality! If you've ever been to China, you'll note the same attitude. You talk of cell phones, you're right about them being manufactured in China ... most of Nokia's high-end phones are still made in Europe! Its the mass-produced junk and mid-range phones that are now almost completely made in China.

No offense, but countries like China will have to go through the maturity cycle ... take the subsidies and tax-breaks away, and you'll have nothing left to compete with!

[Saffir]

The issue of quality is not dictated by the worker "99% of the population would be happy just to get the damn job done" is true the driving force behind quality is the supervision.

China has been seperated from the main stream for a long time and there is a general missconception that all things Chineese are inferior - this is partially due to the fact that a lot of the goods imported from there have been of the poorer quality, cheaper end of the market.

I work in the construction indistry and have seen many Pakistani workers work to a VERY high standard of quality, again, as i said it is all down to supervision.

Seems to me that many people from all over the world wish to beat themselves down before they have had a chance to compete!!! Pakistanis, Chineese, Lithuatians, russians, Africans and EVEN Americans are capable of working to the same standards given the proper motivation, supervision and engineering. (well maybe not the Americans)!

Take your example of illusion of German engineering - All RHD 3 seris BMWs sold in the world are manufactured in South Africa. Could also have been made in China - some would prefer it?!?! AGAIN, as i said it is all down to supervision and quality control.

Nokia, fortunately, are not te only manufacturers of mobile phones! I have got an N70 (got it free) that i do not use as it is terrible! Both the hardware and the software are inferior and it was made in Finland.

You say "... take the subsidies and tax-breaks away, and you'll have nothing left to compete with!" Are theese the protectionist subsidies and taxes levied by the US and Europe to protect their over priced local industries?? Or China's?

My argument remains that the fact that something is made in China does not dictate that the product is inferior! Conversely European and american things are not necessarilly superior!!!

[Overdrive]

This arguement is going in circles, and I respect your 'support the underdog' zeal. I'll arrest my case when when I can look at a product and think "Made in China, hmmmm, this should last me well ...", until then, I stand by "Ze Germans" and "The Rising Sun" ... two nations that successfully developed a culture of quality.

[WSF]

All car makes r going into this direction theses days.. u buy their car, drive it 4 a while and throw it like toiler paper... but da exception is: u get 2 drive a good lookin car with loads of luxury and technology @ a cheap price bcuz of its poor quality and durability...

Well this sucks.. Id love 2 get a good quality car even rather than a cheap technology mumbo jumbo ride... Compare todays hondas 2 da ones 6 years ago...and ull find the big difference

[T.N.T]

I seem to have an issue with all of you.
Here goes:

First and foremost, I didn't mean that ANYTHING made in China is inferior. The most important thing is the brand you are buying and how much you trust it. So please don't give me all that stuff saying that 'even Company-X makes their goods in China, that doesn't mean they suck' Great Wall, Chery, Jinbei, whatever, suck! They still have a lot to learn. They may be reliable (I never said they were unreliable, no personal experience ) but material quality is puny and there is something called 'safety' which they lack in. Like there was this new Great Wall SUV, before releasing it in Europe, they had to give it for safety testing and it failed ral bad (not a single star in any category) and the EPA testing officials said that the SUV was a risk to whoever buys it and thus was banned.
I agree that American cars suck but I think that is a thing of the past now. They are coming back to their senses as Toyota is kincking their ass in their home market and build quality is improving. eg. Cadillac Art & Science range, new 'BOLD' range bye Chevrolet. etc.
BTW, N70 isn't that bad. I hve an N70 and a W810i. Perfectly fine phones!
What's exactly wrong with Honda, WSF? Be more clear, you've said this before too.

[WSF]

First of all hondas... r 1 of da most reliable cars on da roads 2day; im a honda fan anyways... yet comparing them 2 da previous generations; u find that da previous models had better quality materials and somehow had a sporty feel... they also felt more durable and tougher than the newer generations which r plasticy, cheap and posy....ever since 01.. n dats not what hondas used tradition used 2 b...

[Overdrive]

TNT, I know you're a loyal customer of nokia's ... but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on the N70 ... because I like the ad campaign

I agree with WSF on the Honda issue, although most of the honda's exported around the ME do not come from Japan, even Japan-made models don't have the same build quality as they used to. I have 2006 civic, and can testify that the drive of a well maintained 1995 civic beats the current model in comfort and interior quality. Honda has traditionally made very long lasting engines, and globally reviews of post-2000 civics have pointed to cheap plastic used in the interior, relatively inferior suspension parts, and a host of other quality issues.

By the way, WSF, do you use synthetic oil in your honda? if yes, what brand, and what brand of filter do you use with the oil?

[WSF]

Well these days.. most car manufacturers r not concerned about quality or durability... they all want 2 make cool cars with cool specs 4 a cheap price 4 people 2 buy.... n i dnt like that... its no longer like buying a car...

[Overdrive]

I agree, and was thinking exactly the same thing this morning. However, having thought that, I also believe that car-lovers and second-car owners will eventually bring some sort of an equilibrium to the market. I was thinking of Mercedes in particular (after having seen some spy-shots of the c-class) and how they're previous CEO screwed the company by cutting costs and leading the brand to its fall from grace. Their recent productions look like such a desperate attempt to regain their position that one feels sorry for them!